Obama's Health Plan - Not Looking Too Good

Related article (4.00 / 3)

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/200...

Some people have suggested that dealing with the global financial crisis outweighed the need for immediate health care reform, but PriceWaterhouseCoopers said they were not mutually exclusive. For instance, health reforms could spark new mergers and acquisitions, it said.

"The financial crisis and culminating market forces could accelerate health reform, not be a roadblock," the report read.

Now where have we heard that before . . . . ?

---

by: nycstray @ Wed Nov 12, 2008 at 13:47:26 PM CST

obama stole some of hillary's ideas like electronic medical records... (4.00 / 1)

...but the problem is that such structural changes will pay off in the long run, and getting health care from our current for-profit system will cost a lot up front. hillary's plan actually had dollar signs in it - you could see where the money was coming from, and where it was going. obama's plan was all moonlight and magnolias when it came to the financial details.

i really don't think he has any commitment whatsoever to reforming health care. he acted peeved when he had to come up with a plan during the campaign, as if someone had assigned him extra homework.

Barack Obama's election proves that any male can grow up to be president, provided he's willing to use misogyny as a campaign strategy.

---

by: campskunk @ Wed Nov 12, 2008 at 14:09:11 PM CST

[ Parent ]

Fix Health Care and You (4.00 / 2)

fix the economy.  So many of our econ. problems relate to HC - personal bankruptcies, foreclosures, the auto industry problems...  Get everyone into the pool - take care of health problems BEFORE they become chronic or catestrophic and you solve a lot of the problems.

Pelosi's putting the cart befor the horse in shoving reform aside.  And BHOs plan is half-@ssed and cowardly.  Econ. experts have been saying all along that without mandates this simply won't work.

Its time Congress got to work and fixed this mess once and for all.

Invest in Women - Change the World
http://twitter.com/alegrescorner

---

by: Alegre @ Wed Nov 12, 2008 at 14:12:39 PM CST

Mandates risks alienating one of his key support demographics (4.00 / 2)

Younger people who could afford health insurance and should be in the pool to help balance out risks.

I was originally very much against mandates in Mass. because I hadn't done my homework and did not realize that a big goal was to make people participate who were younger and willing to risk going insurance-less.  (actually, the more accurate way to say it is to make more people who are willing to take the risks of going insurance-less participate, a group which is weighted toward younger, healthier people).

I still think Mass. has a problem with helping poorer people be able to afford their mandatory participation, and there are other difficulties, but without mandates what we end up with is not health care reform, but health care nibbling-around-the-edges-to-no-great-effect.

---

by: Valhalla @ Wed Nov 12, 2008 at 16:21:55 PM CST

Yes, I agree (4.00 / 1)

I'm not sure it's the insurance companies he's unwilling to take on. The entire thrust of his campaign was towards young voters, and they say they don't want to be forced to buy insurance.

When Paul Krugman tried to explain why you can't let people opt out, he instantly became the enemy over at the Orange place. I don't know, it seems perfectly simple & lucid to me, but 150,000 intelligent people over there were unable or unwilling to grasp it.

I know that we all have a tendency to filter out information that contradicts a position we've taken, and I've certainly observed myself doing it, but I've never seen it more evident than in the reaction to Obama's health plan. Cult behavior if I ever saw it.

---

by: denise b @ Wed Nov 12, 2008 at 17:17:27 PM CST

[ Parent ]

Little brats (4.00 / 1)

Why do we have to cater to them?

---

by: catfish @ Wed Nov 12, 2008 at 17:23:48 PM CST

[ Parent ]

Both campaigns also pushed the selfishness riffs (4.00 / 2)

with Social Security and Obama's supporters (and the campaign but certainly his supporters) have a huge narcissistic streak.  They are blind to the benefits they get from social programs (and when I say that I include things like paying taxes), but see only all these 'other people' taking their money away, as if they will never ever need health care, or grow old, or want their roads paved.  They resent all these 'other people' who are making their lives ever so difficult for them to buy the latest iPhone.  I think it will be that segment of Obama's supporters (think the former Repulican DKos-Ariana keyboard 'warrior' demo) that will kill affirmative action faster than you can spit, esp. as the economy grows weaker and there is more competition for jobs.

There was actually a study that came out about a year ago -- it's a study they repeat every few years -- that showed that the generation of people just a few years out of college are the highest on the narcissism scale in 40 years (or maybe it was 30 years, I forget exactly, but the measurement was in decades).  It was one of the things that made me wary of Obama very early on -- I wasn't all that confident in the overwhelming choice of the Narcissism Generation.  (of course, the study was showing trends, not that every person under 30 is self-centered and self-involved).  But the "We are the change we've been waiting for" sloganeering was tailor made, marketing-wise, for that demographic.

---

by: Valhalla @ Wed Nov 12, 2008 at 17:58:00 PM CST

[ Parent ]

Did you see the 60 minutes piece (0.00 / 0)

Called "Echo Boomers" - covering trend in the current generation (kids of the Baby Boomers) http://www.cbsnews.com/stories... . Mel Levine has an interesting observation - this generation is REALLY naive, compared to others.

There was actually a study that came out about a year ago -- it's a study they repeat every few years -- that showed that the generation of people just a few years out of college are the highest on the narcissism scale in 40 years (or maybe it was 30 years, I forget exactly, but the measurement was in decades).

That was a reason for my skepticism too, Valhalla.

---

by: catfish @ Wed Nov 12, 2008 at 18:39:59 PM CST

[ Parent ]

I was just talking to someone today about the boomer generation (4.00 / 2)

compared to the current one.  We are having all kinds of problems with the younger workers in my office who have been newly hired, campared to the workers who just retired who were in their 50's. There was a really large exit of boomers into retirement in the last few years.  This was a group of people who had worked together for 20 to 30 years. They used to talk about the boomer generation as being the "Me" generation.  You haven't seen a true "Me" generation until you have seen the current one.  They are out for themselves.  No sacrifices.  They don't do anything to benefit the common group, and they certainly care nothing about helping each other in a team. Any policy that is put into place, if it doesn't help them as opposed to others, it's useless.  

---

by: Hopscotch @ Wed Nov 12, 2008 at 19:26:35 PM CST

[ Parent ]

Here it is - groupthink of echo boomers (4.00 / 2)

Levine, who is considered one of the foremost authorities in the country on how children learn, is now researching a book on young people entering their 20s. He is concerned that groupthink is stifling initiative. And because they have always been rewarded for participation, not achievement, they don't have a strong sense what they are good at and what they're not.

For instance, when a young person shows up for work at his or her first job, what do they expect and what are they finding?

"They expect to be immediate heroes and heroines. They expect a lot of feedback on a daily basis. They expect grade inflation, they expect to be told what a wonderful job they're doing," says Levine.

"[They expect] that they're gonna be allowed to rise to the top quickly. That they're gonna get all the credit they need for everything they do. And boy, are they naive. Totally naive, in terms of what's really gonna happen."

Levine says that is not the only part of their cultural conditioning that's going to require an adjustment in the workplace.

"I talked to the CEO of a major corporation recently and I said, 'What characterizes your youngest employees nowadays?'" says Levine. "And he said, 'There's one major thing.' He said, 'They can't think long-range. Everything has to be immediate, like a video game. And they have a lot of trouble sort of doing things in a stepwise fashion, delaying gratification. Really reflecting as they go along.' I think that's new."

Levine calls the phenomenon visual motor ecstasy, where any cultural accoutrement that doesn't produce instant satisfaction is boring. As echo boomers grow up, they'll have to learn that life is not just a series of headlines and highlight reels.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories...

---

by: catfish @ Wed Nov 12, 2008 at 18:45:43 PM CST

[ Parent ]

I think that also matches some in their 30's. (4.00 / 1)

Although, many in their late 30's still have the old values of patience and hard work and don't feel entitled, the younger ones are talking about getting a supervisory position in their first couple of weeks on a new job.

---

by: Hopscotch @ Wed Nov 12, 2008 at 19:29:07 PM CST

[ Parent ]

We in our 30's were sandwiched between Boomers and Echo Boomers (4.00 / 1)

Boomers and Echo Boomers have the benefit of numbers - there are simply more of them. The schools I attended - my elementary school, for example - closed down just after I graduated and are now open and overflowing.

I think they called us the hipster generation or generation x.

I would love to hear more about your workplace experiences, sounds fascinating. I remember the naivete I had entering the workforce - I thought if you just work really hard, you get ahead. And if it's not working, just work harder. Well that didn't work.

---

by: catfish @ Wed Nov 12, 2008 at 20:04:51 PM CST

[ Parent ]

There was a split in my age group (0.00 / 0)

Some of us were the youngest of our siblings. I may be overgeneralizing but, we had to fend for ourselves more, and we didn't complain because that's how it was for our older siblings.

Other friends were the oldest of their siblings, and their parents were intensely involved in their lives, their schoolwork, organizing their rooms, driving them around, etc.

---

by: catfish @ Wed Nov 12, 2008 at 20:11:58 PM CST

[ Parent ]

Another area in danger with these youngsters is Union participation, and (4.00 / 2)

appreciation.  I'm a union steward in my office and trying to get them interested and involved is impossible.  The meetings are boring, and they can't see the point in a union, and they certainly don't want to do anything that will interfere with their finances or social life, like go on strike or attend somesort of an issues thingy at night, or even lunch time.  It wasn't this bad in the past.  The concept of unions will be gone in the not too distant future.

---

by: Hopscotch @ Wed Nov 12, 2008 at 19:34:51 PM CST

[ Parent ]

Little brats (4.00 / 1)

Now did these coworkers of yours vote for Obama?  

---

by: catfish @ Wed Nov 12, 2008 at 20:06:34 PM CST

[ Parent ]

They were so bratty that a lot of them didn't even vote. (4.00 / 1)

But some of us older ones were extremely torn about what to do.  But older ones ended up voting for Obama, just to vote against the republicans and not at all because they liked Obama.  During the primaries, the entire group of Dems in the office which was the majority, except one young one, were for Hillary though.  OUr union endorsed Obama, and there was a lot of bitterness about that.  Of course Hillary won big here. And then there was a slow morphing to Obama in desperation.  At first everyone was saying they couldn't vote for him, and then they didn't know, and then they reluctantly voted for him.  We work for govt. and McCain would have been bad for us, with his frozen spending, and his dislike of unions, and this whole area is a big Democratic catholic area that goes Dem everytime anyway.  Though Obo lost big here and everywhere else in the primaries.  He is also saying he will support the big Union membership bill that will help with organizing unions and increasing membership, where McCain didn't want it.  Not that many of them cared but anyway.......this election was very hard on those who cared.

---

by: Hopscotch @ Wed Nov 12, 2008 at 20:45:29 PM CST

[ Parent ]

This has been known for a long time (4.00 / 4)

It was one of the major indicators that Hillary was by far the better candidate. She proposed the plan that would actually work. Obama didn't, he proposed the plan that won't work and in fact will cover fewer people but cost more. It is a prime example of his lack of leadership, and I suspect collusion with the health insurance companies.

He got young people's votes, now he has to do the right thing. Let's not hold out breaths.

We the people have to demand universal health care. Otherwise the do nothing dem crooks in congress will do nothing.

---

by: foxx @ Wed Nov 12, 2008 at 17:51:46 PM CST

Get a load of this! (4.00 / 2)

According to the very reliable Glen Greenwald, Obama wants to have Joe Lieberman appointed Chair of the Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs Committee!
I have a feeling that Hillary won't get any plum assignments, but the guy who campaigned against him.....

Lihttp://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/2008/11/12/lieberman/index.html

---

by: BernieO @ Wed Nov 12, 2008 at 19:57:47 PM CST

he's already chair of Homeland Security. (4.00 / 1)

the ruckus is over whether he keeps it.  

Barack Obama's election proves that any male can grow up to be president, provided he's willing to use misogyny as a campaign strategy.

---

by: campskunk @ Wed Nov 12, 2008 at 20:16:29 PM CST

[ Parent ]

Failed healthcare plans (4.00 / 2)

I've been so surprised about how Tennessee's Universal  Healthcare plan failed so miserably and nobody noticed. A few ears ago, Tennessee used Federal Medicaid and tax dollars to create a program called TennCare. It was to provide healthcare for anyone that didn't have coverage. If you had medicaid, you had Tenncare. If you didn't have insurance, you had Tenncare. If you worked and didn't have health coverage, you could buy into Tenncare.
The Tenncare program lasted 4 or 5 years. The problem with it was that it was administered through the state but doled out to HMOs, PPOs, etc to administer. Each of these companies took a piece of the pie for themselves. They were NOT non-profit. In a short time, it became very clear that the cost of prescription drugs alone would bankrupt the program. There was no state agency to buy bulk or negotiate prices, everything was retail. It was a popular Democratic Governor, Phil Bredesen, who used to own one of these companies ala Bill Frist, that finally buried Tenncare due to the costs of the program. But in fixing the fiscal crisis that this program caused the state. Everybody - disabled, poor, sick were thrown out of the program with 30 - 90 days notice. The only people that kept coverage was children and their parents. They had no qualifying criteria except that they had kids period. Medicaid was not restored so many poor and sick people were left to fend for themselves all of a sudden. Many had to move out of state, many got sicker and/or died. Again, this was a good program but poorly managed. Too many companies got their piece of the pie, too many drug companies made windfall profit, but the bottom line was that there was not enough revenue to continue. MONEY, MONEY, MONEY!  So when I hear of the grand plans of the coming Obama administration, I'm not looking at the party, I'm looking at their bank balance.

---

by: glennmcgahee @ Thu Nov 13, 2008 at 10:41:12 AM CST