Menu

Make a New Account

Username:

Password:



Forget your username or password?


Search




Advanced Search


Alegre's Corner
We're not finished folks - not by a long shot!

Social Security Update: Orszag Schmoozes Politico

by: campskunk

Fri Feb 20, 2009 at 00:08:58 AM EST


Well, the word's getting out that Social Security is on the table at the "fiscal responsibility summit" next week, and the natives are restless. Chris Bowers at TalkLeft accurately summarizes Peter Orszag's Social Security "reform" agenda from 2005, and points out that Peter's either changed his mind since then or is sugarcoating his description of what's in store in his remarks to Ben Smith, which read in part:

"Social Security faces an actuarial deficit over the next 75-100 years. In the past, I've resisted the term 'crisis' to describe that kind of situation," he said. "This is not quantitatively as important as getting health care done."

Which brings all of us back to the burning question: If there's no crisis, and Social Security isn't broken (it isn't) (it's REALLY not broken) (it's REALLY, REALLY not broken) (it's REALLY, REALLY, REALLY not broken), then why the hell are we "fixing" it? Nobody seems to know, except that the 2.4 trillion dollars in the Social Security trust fund sure would come in handy if one were in, say, a fiscal crisis.

Orszag can't get his story straight, and don't expect the deficit hawk participants at the fiscal responsibility summit to help him. Ezra Klein's not worried, saying the focus is on health care, especially Medicaid and Medicare, and Social Security isn't even going to come up. Riiiight. Ezra also slips in a characterization of Peter Orszag as the savior of Social Security, a counterforce to those nasty Social Security privatizers, and that everyone loves his plan. Chris Bowers shoots that one full of holes.

Read Orszag's plan. It's all there: reduction in benefits, increase in premiums, and lots of monkeying around with the cap and how taxed income above the cap will be treated differently than money from us regular working folks. And that's what is going to kill Social Security. You see, right now, everyone who puts in money gets benefits roughly in proportion to their contribution. Me and Warren Buffet will get pretty much the same check, and we've contributed roughly the same amount. Well, Warren probably put in more than I did, because I'm pretty sure he made at least $100k for a few years when I was a bit shy of that amount, but you get the idea.

Orszag's plan will shift this fundamentally fair system to one where the rich will be subsidizing the poor. And that will open the door to the argument that, "Well, us rich folks are paying for those poor folks to get their checks, so why can't we cut it back? What did they do to earn that check, anyway?" It changes Social Security from an insurance program to a welfare program, and undermines the claim that you're getting benefits that you deserve based on your own contributions to the fund. Once that unassailable fact is altered, Social Security, which has survived 70 years of efforts to dismantle it, won't last long.

I'm over 55, so my benefits aren't going to be the ones getting cut (at least, that's what Orszag's current claim now is). HOWEVER. Once Social Security becomes "that welfare program for old poor people", I can be pretty sure one month I'll go out to the mailbox and it'll be empty. And I'll have nowhere to turn, because I'll have been out of the labor market for decades, my education will be useless, and I won't have any enough other sources of income to keep a roof over my head and food in the house. I have lived on less than a thousand dollars a month - back when I had no health care needs and could make more money if I wanted to. When I'm 75 or 80, all those options will be gone.  And where will Orszag be? Heh. I'm sure his portfolio will look fine.

Morning update below the fold...

campskunk :: Social Security Update: Orszag Schmoozes Politico
MORNING UPDATE:

Ian Welch at Firedoglake catches Orszag fudging the numbers:

http://firedoglake.com/2009/02...

Jane Hamsher spanks Ezra Klein, who might even enjoy it:

http://firedoglake.com/2009/02...

digby has good advice:

This is not the circumstance under which you want to meet with billionaires who have spent decades organizing for just such a moment. They know what they want down to the last penny. They have their marketing slogans all worked out. They have their "bipartisan" advocates. They have the villagers and the media, all believing one, simple thing: that the government is going broke because of "entitlement" spending. You don't face people like this not knowing exactly what it's about and what you hope to get out of it. It's not a friendly game of Twister. It's a death match.

http://digbysblog.blogspot.com...

Tags: (All Tags)
Print Friendly View Send As Email
Well, at least Ezra Klein isn't worried. (0.00 / 0)
Ha ha ha ha ha!!!

That tells us precisely NOTHING! Klein has no ability to be objective with this administration. At least Chris Bowers is awake.

(Great diary, camp. Keep it up.)


A youngster at OpenLeft has it all figured out, it's a crisis because (0.00 / 0)
Oh it's quite true!  (0.00 / 0)
Let me simplify things for you.

You go to Applebees for dinner. You rack up a huge bill on your credit card. The collection agency comes around and reminds you of your responsibility to pay and you say "but I left a good tip!"

That is the bait-and-switch happening on a generational level with Social Security. The Boomers have ruined the economy and run up staggering debt, then turn around and say "but I paid my payroll taxes!"

So when they underfunded education and SCHIP and prenatal care, investment in infrastructure and generally cut taxes below what was needed to run the government, they were genius enough to simultaneously fully fund the programs that would go exclusively to them?

That is bullshit.

Either fund all your obligations, or reduce the obligations.

Don't play accounting games.
by: Paul Goodman @ Thu Feb 19, 2009 at 16:47:33 PM CST
[ Parent ]

Link http://www.openleft.com/showCo...

ah, these young democrats... (0.00 / 0)
...i hardly recognize them anymore.

Barack Obama's election proves that any male can grow up to be president, provided he's willing to use misogyny as a campaign strategy.

[ Parent ]
When I was in college, these young Dems (0.00 / 0)
wore Top-Siders, Izod shirts, and voted for Reagan.

[ Parent ]
see, that's where they learned it. (0.00 / 0)
preach fiscal responsibility, and then run up the debt to favor youself to the disadvantage of other groups.

actually, little paul may be onto something. since i funded social security with my own #%$*@~! money, let's say i get to continue to get that. now, as for the roads and other transportation infrastructure? i promise i'll stop using that by the time i'm 85 or 90. education? mine's completed, so no more for me, thanks. SCHIP? i don't have any kids or grandkids. that's paul's problem. cut taxes? i don't care. i won't have enough income to tax. it's people paul's age who have the most to lose if government is dysfunctional.

Barack Obama's election proves that any male can grow up to be president, provided he's willing to use misogyny as a campaign strategy.


[ Parent ]
They might grow out of it (0.00 / 0)
I grew out of it (grew out of freaking out about Social Security.)

The problem is, there are so many of these youngsters right now, something like 25% of the population is under age 25.


[ Parent ]
They'll be the ones to suffer (0.00 / 0)
The kids have been convinced that: 1)Social Security won't be there anymore when it's time for them to collect, and 2)destroying it is a good way to pay us boomers back for our sins.

I've almost given up trying to persuade them that turning it into a welfare system is a really bad idea, or that a lot of the shortfalls are in the general fund and not SS.

The sad thing is that under all the proposals I've ever seen, it's young people that will really lose out, not us. Well, it'll be theirs to fight for or to kiss goodbye; I'll be dead.


[ Parent ]
How retirement fears/uncertainty affect confidence, consumer confidence (0.00 / 0)
Here's a comment I just had to copy:
A better plan  (4.00 / 5)
I do not want cuts to social security.  I think that people don't understand that retirement fears are among the key roots of economic security (as stated in the essay Building Shared Prosperity by Lawrence Mishel and Nancy Cleeland - in the new book from the Progressive Ideas Network: Thinking Big).  If we don't understand that people's right to a secure present and future impacts our economy then we will never solve this crisis.
by: friake @ Thu Feb 19, 2009 at 15:42:13 PM CST

http://www.openleft.com/showCo...


the Campaign for America's Future linked there... (0.00 / 0)
...is one of the think tanks who's blowing the whistle on this scam.

The conservatives-that's right, the very same folks who just dragged us along on an eight-year drunken binge during which they borrowed-and-spent us into the deepest financial catastrophe in nearly a century-are now standing there, faces full of moral rectitude, fingers pointing and shaking in our faces, righteously lecturing the rest of us on the topic of "fiscal responsibility."

I didn't think it was possible. I mean, they were mean enough drunk-but hung over, in the clear light of morning, it turns out they're even worse.

http://www.ourfuture.org/blog-...

Barack Obama's election proves that any male can grow up to be president, provided he's willing to use misogyny as a campaign strategy.


[ Parent ]
they need (0.00 / 0)
to work the first step.  

Hillary - alternative energy

[ Parent ]
It changes a regressive tax to a progressive tax (0.00 / 0)
In any case, requiring the uber rich to pay SS tax on income up to $200K instead of capping it at $100K does not make SS welfare.  It makes it more fair because the uber rich have access to better health care and will be drawing longer on SS than the average below $50K earner.  They also will retire earlier and begin to draw at a younger age.

FYI, Warren Buffett thinks its ridiculous that he pays less percentage in tax than his secretary.  He thinks THAT is welfare for the rich.


"regressive" "taxes" live long and productive lives. "progressive" "taxes" get repealed. (0.00 / 0)
...and if you think siocial security contributions are a tax, you've already halfway bought the enemy's propaganda. they're payments into an insurance system. i agree with orszag from an actuarial standpoint, but not a political one. many a pension system has gotten fat by working blue-collar workers until they're damn near dead, and then giving them a year or two of retirement money until they croak. the rich WILL live longer - because they have access to health care. and they can retire earlier- because they're rich.  however, the second the wealthy get a different contribution/benefit ratio than the rest of us, they'll gain political leverage they can use to destroy the whole structure.  that's what reagan did to the progressive features of the income tax.

Barack Obama's election proves that any male can grow up to be president, provided he's willing to use misogyny as a campaign strategy.

[ Parent ]
it's a sign (0.00 / 0)
that the pug propaganda has worked, even liberal democrats see social security as a tax?  But, they do, and so does Barack.  

Hillary - alternative energy

[ Parent ]
You don't pay into social security unless (0.00 / 0)
you have an income to tax.  It is a tax.  Period.  Your contribution is determined by how much earned income you have until you earn more than $100K per year.  The rich already have a different benefit/payment ratio than us.  They pay LESS of a percentage of their total income than us.  That's what makes it a regressive tax.


[ Parent ]
It's an insurance program, like an annuity (0.00 / 0)
FDR designed it purposely this way, so that the rich would not resent subsidizing the poor, and that way, the program would last a long time.

Changing this insurance program into a welfare program opens it up to being dismantled.


[ Parent ]
It's not a regressive tax. It's an insurance program. (0.00 / 0)
If anything, they should repay the fund and expand benefits.  Camp is 100% right.  First of all, you are going to nab a lot of people at the end of their careers who are finally making good money, and it's only going to marginally effect Buffet at all to move the cap that way, meanwhile all for what?  It will totally undermine the system, which is why it was designed as it was.  You know what will effect Buffet?  You know what a progressive tax is?  Replace the capital gains cash dividends tax treatment, and the private equity/hedge fund tax treatment, and treat them as regular income, as they should be.  The owners of capital, i.e. CEO's, corp execs, hedge fund managers, private equity holders ie Buffet pay 15% income tax on nearly all their income.  Why on earth would anyone want to mess with SS when these f*ckers are paying 15% income tax?

Medicare for All is Civil Rights

[ Parent ]
And you think people making $200K and above (0.00 / 0)
are the uber rich? There are very, very few of them, but an awful lot of upper middle class people, especially in certain areas.  Now you're making them pay to benefit other people - i.e., pay for welfare - and they're not going to like it one bit. You're turning middle class people who were all supporters of Social Security into antagonists.

Warren Buffett wasn't speaking about Social Security. We're probably all in agreement that the wealthy should pay more in income taxes. Social Security is the wrong place to hit them up. It's an insurance system and its broad popularity is due to the fact that there's a relationship between what you pay in and the benefits you get.


[ Parent ]
Denise, this is exactly right. (0.00 / 0)
Why the heck is it so hard for people to understand this simple concept.  Social security has lasted so long precisely because it was designed to avoid the political trappings of welfare.

Medicare for All is Civil Rights

[ Parent ]
Again, Camp, you've hit the nail right on the head. (0.00 / 0)
"...taxed income above the cap will be treated differently than money from us regular working folks. And that's what is going to kill Social Security."

Can't you see the day when we get $1,000 a month and Orszag and Klein and friends get $1,000,000.  Hmmmmmm.  Now how long will it take for the entire system to go broke then?

And Catfish - that's a great quote you found:  bait and switch.  I think you can bring fraud and other criminal charges on those kinds of retail schemes.  What's the difference here?


HA ON ME - I thought the youngster.... (0.00 / 0)
saw the bait and switch as relating to those of us who have been putting money into the system all these years - but NO, we Boomers are all to blame once again.

Let me explain to this bozo real slow.....we   put   money  into  a   lock   box    so   we    can    live    when   we've   turned    our    jobs    over    to    you   jerks.  But   now    you    want   my    lock    box    to    spend    on    bailing    you   out     because    you're    jerks.

Hey, aren't most of those financial types Generation Xers or Hopey Dopes - not boomers?

They won't be happy until we long dead before we get blamed for everything in their miserable lives.  Now I understand CDS - Bill and Hill are us!


[ Parent ]
the generational war? (0.00 / 0)
oh, how many ways to divide. Guess what, we all get old, and that's if we're lucky.  

Hillary - alternative energy

[ Parent ]
those who don't 'need' government (0.00 / 0)
are surely wrong, it only takes one crisis to come to depend on our common humanity to get by.  These are the same wizards (from the same warp and weave) that have let our kids go without health care, and  lose out on an education because teachers are paid poorly and schools aren't safe places to learn.  They're the ones that have let the fast food industry and breakfast cereal industry ruin our kids health, it's all profit, for the short term.  It's divide and never add.  

Hillary - alternative energy

Did you read the fine print in Orzag's plan, campskunk? (0.00 / 0)
You have to have turned 55 in 2004 to still receive "unreformed" benefits.

In other words, if you're not turning 60 this year, the "reforms" will apply to you.


goddammit! (0.00 / 0)
i assumed they'd update it, since it's been on the shelf for 4 years, and slide everything up. but you're right. why are we even trying to DEAL with these republicans? they're evil.

We have a social security system today because Franklin Delano Roosevelt used Democratic majorities in Congress to roll right over the Republicans who, standing on principle, thought social security was nothing more than a socialistic, big government scheme. Democrats in the 1930s used their majorities to transform the country and it paid off in decades of dominance in Congress.

if hillary were president, she wouldn't be sitting around in some "fiscal responsibility summit". she'd be in an armored bulldozer, approaching the capitol.

Barack Obama's election proves that any male can grow up to be president, provided he's willing to use misogyny as a campaign strategy.


[ Parent ]
Here's some of the fine print (0.00 / 0)
"...Like the other components of our plan, our life expectancy adjustment does not affect benefits for workers who are fifty-five years old or older in 2004."

"Always aim high, work hard, and care deeply about what you believe in. When you stumble, keep faith. When you?re knocked down, get right back up. And NEVER listen to anyone who says you can't or shouldn't go on."
Hillary Clinton - June 7, 2008

Hillary Clinton
- Put stuff here

Blog Roll
- Put stuff here

Powered by: SoapBlox