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Alegre's Corner
We're not finished folks - not by a long shot!

PUMAs Need to Pounce on Primary Reform, Now!

by: Democrat In Exile

Thu Jul 17, 2008 at 11:36:06 AM EDT


( - promoted by campskunk)

As you may note from my many posts on primary reform, I am not a big fan of any of the current proposals for primary reform found at FairVote.org or CenterForPolitics.org.   

My question to PUMAs and No Dealers is "Do you want primary reform or not?  Time to influence the process, not just the outcome!   (Hint:  If the Senate holds primary reform hearings now, it can do nothing BUT help get the word out about how fraudulent this last primary season has been.  Get it?)   Sorry, PUMAs and No Dealers, is my frustration showing?

None of the plans described at FairVote.org or CenterForPolitics.org exclude caucuses. Neither does Senator Feinstein's 2007 legislation nor, apparently, Senator Nelson's recent legislation. This is a major drawback.  There is just no way that caucuses should be allowed, unless only for the purposes of having an advisory role.  They clearly do not measure up to the primary principle of democracy -- one person, one vote.  This is widely accepted among experts and the population, but runs up against stiff resistance from certain states and power brokers, who apparently want to hold on to archaic forms of power.

The best elucidation of what an ideal primary process would consist of is found in the New York Times editorial of June 8, 2008 -- Primary Reforms.  The NYT editorial points out clearly the need to (1) eliminate caucuses, (2) revise the schedule of voting, (3) revise how delegates are allocated, and (4) eliminate superdelegates. The NYT also recommends clear rules with respect to penalties for violating scheduling rules.

In my opinion, if the primary scheduling process was done fairly (like a rotating lottery, or eliminating state schedules entirely -- see below -- there would likely be no states who would feel "left out" and want to seek exemptions from the scheduling rules.)

Memo to Feinstein:

Democrat In Exile :: PUMAs Need to Pounce on Primary Reform, Now!
Memo to Feinstein:  If you want the most democratic process to occur during the primary season, this is what you would do.
  • Eliminate caucuses.   Do you need any proof as to why they are fatally flawed?   If so, I will elucidate.   Just request more information, if you can't get that concept.

  • Eliminate all state schedules.   I don't know why this hasn't caught on, except for maybe states just want to have more power and don't believe in voters' rights and powers.  This is so easy.  The concept is "Vote Anytime, Count Often."   My understanding is that Jonathan Soros originated this idea which you can read more about at Vote Early, Count Often at the NYT.   I think Mr. Soros should have named the concept Vote Anytime, Count Often, because it is NOT really about voting early.

    The idea is to establish a national primary period that allows any voter in any state to mail in or go to a voting center to vote ANY TIME between, let's say, January 15 and June 15.  The votes would be tallied by the states about every three weeks and reported. 

    This voting scenario allows the voter to be in charge, not the states, and thus, there is no basis for states to try to jockey for an early voting position. It gives ultimate power to the voter to decide to vote early or vote later, to declare early, or to wait and contemplate.  The downside, of course, is power brokers lose (oh, cry me a river....) and those who desire a centralized DNC or RNC lose (oh, cry me a river, again....). The other downside is that exit pollsters lose, and the mainstream media loses power (oh, cry me a giant river...).  This is the way it should be, not centralized power, and not structured for the media's benefits and control.
  • The upside for states is that the process of making ballots and counting votes is actually simplified. Votes would come in spread out over a period of time that would allow states to likely NOT have to hire additional workers to process ballots.

    This is the ultimate concept in voter power and thus, it is the ideal democratic scheduling scenario, bar none.

  • Eliminate crossover voting. Limit the ability of Republicans to vote for Democrats to influence the outcome of Democratic primaries, and vice versa (Does that happen?  Would a Democrat be that sneaky?)   One way to help limit the practice of crossover voting would be to have closed primaries which do not allow affiliation changes within 30 days of any primary.

  • Apportion delegates rationally.  Apportion delegates pro-rata, per state, on the basis of percentage totals at the end of the voting season.

  • Eliminate most superdelegate tasks.  Eliminate superdelegate tasks except for emergency situations that might take place close to or after a convention, and set firm rules as to what would trigger superdelegate participation.

Dear, Honorable Senator Feinstein:  Are you listening?   Thank you for your kind consideration, and, ummm, let's get moving.

Memo to Readers:  Write or call Senator Feinstein and ask her to keep her promise to hold hearings on primary reform this month.

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No to caucuses; they are inherently undemocratic. (0.00 / 0)
And the caucuses have led us directly to this mess we're now in -- we need to get rid of the caucuses, now.

I, personally, like the idea of having the states go in fourths -- but the idea of "vote anytime, count often" works, too.

As for the "eliminate independent voting," I don't agree with that.  (I know you said "no cross-over voting," but this also throws out Independents.)  I think independents should pick one party to go to the primary in and be allowed to participate and vote the same as anyone else -- and I, personally, like open primaries even though they are annoying -- the Obama people used political gamesmanship to win the Montana open primary, for example.

Anyway, the first and easiest thing to do is simple:  disallow caucuses.  Get rid of 'em; they are not democratic and they are not a fair reflection of the will of the voters whatsoever.

There's no excuse for this, DNC.  None.


not democratic (0.00 / 0)
not secret, vulnerable to gaming, bad idea.  And no to pugs voting in our primaries. that's also an invitation for gaming. And yes to super's breaking deadlocks, not to getting bought by candidates.  We need reform now.  It's too late for this time, but we still need it now.  

Hillary - alternative energy

[ Parent ]
Here in Illinois, we've always had open primaries. (0.00 / 0)
No one here is officially registered as a Repub or Dem. We're also a pretty strange state in that we've always had some candidates who are just plain excellent, regardless of party. My current State Rep. is a Repub, and she's outstanding, while my State Senator is a Dem and he's also very good. (I realize that we're talking national primaries here, but I use that just as an example).

Anyway, the point is that every state would have to agree to closed primaries. That sounds almost as difficult as getting an amendment to the Constitution. I like the idea, but I think there would need to be restrictions such that if you were an Independent, then registered to vote Dem, you could not re-register until after the national election. Something like that.

Thankfully, we've never had caucuses here. I would be part of a class-action lawsuit to eliminate the caucus if that's what we were offered. Perhaps that's the way to attack the caucus issue anyway--individual state lawsuits.


[ Parent ]
Primary reform...YES! (0.00 / 0)
This should be topic A-1!
It certainly is for me.

The Democratic nominee for 2008 was selected in a process that is inherently anti-democratic and overly complicated.  Not to mention the sleight of hand by the Rules and Bylaws Committee that resulted in votes for one candidate being transferred to another candidate!

My frustration with this process was what sent me over the edge and propelled me into the Registrar of Voters' office the next day in order to quit the Democratic Party.  

Whether Obama is the nominee or not and whether he is elected in November or not, primary reform is absolutely mandatory!


PS (0.00 / 0)
Thank you Democrat in Exile (boy, can I relate to your user name!)
for explaining the various proposals for reform.  I was not aware of them and I will check out your links and contact Feinstein.

[ Parent ]
the senate hearings can only fix so much. (0.00 / 0)
we have caucuses because 1) the national party allows them, deferring to state preference, and 2) states have them for a variety of reasons - economic, tradition, preference, etc.

either the national party needs to say it'll only seat delegates chosen in a primary, or we have to challenge this at the state level ( a total non-starter - iowa will give up caucuses when you pry them from their cold dead fingers).

Barack Obama's election proves that any male can grow up to be president, provided he's willing to use misogyny as a campaign strategy.


What can Congress do? How far can it go on reform? (0.00 / 0)
Hi campskunk and all:  My understanding, like campskunk says, is that possibly certain legislation at the federal level would conceivably have certain limitations on enforcement from a constitutional perspective, since parties are private corporations, more or less.

However, if Congress were to hold hearings and establish a commission to formally issue a "best practices" recommendation, plus whatever legislation might fly, it is very unlikely that any party, states or state party leaders would go against such recommendations or legislation.

They would, well, look like fools. Congress recommends a best practices to enhance democracy and someone opposes it?  Don't think that would fly very well with voters.  I can see the ads now "Iraq is more democratic than Iowa.  What's with that, Iowans?"

The glitch in all this is getting Congress to move on it.  The parties won't, I guarantee it, because, well, power brokers are power brokers and aren't going to give up power very easily.

Iowa can be embarrassed into better democracy practices.  And it is about time.  


[ Parent ]
election integrity (0.00 / 0)

It was amazing to see how mute all the election integrity groups were through the Florida and Michigan primaries.  Apparently these groups only want all votes counted when it benefits their own chosen candidates.

I hope we all stick together and grow a movement to get rid of caucuses, which are oligarchic, not at all democratic, in nature.

btw, the current Nation magazine has an article on democratic reform of the election process.  Write the Nation and fill Katrina in that if she wants reform the most democratic reform would be to get rid of caucuses.

The article suggests contacting these groups:

fairvote.org
demos.org
brennancenter.org
whytuesday.org
newamerica.net


"Always aim high, work hard, and care deeply about what you believe in. When you stumble, keep faith. When you?re knocked down, get right back up. And NEVER listen to anyone who says you can't or shouldn't go on."
Hillary Clinton - June 7, 2008

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