Plouffe: WJC Sunk HRC as VP

HA! BO sunk HRC as VP (4.00 / 3)

He's such a wimp that he couldn't stand to be thatclose to a strong woman - and he used the classic "her husband is a problem" as his weasel out of it.

A**hole.

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by: CoyoteCreek @ Fri Oct 30, 2009 at 20:23:15 PM CDT

We won't know the real reasons and the people behind the VP decision (4.00 / 2)

for many more years. I heard of rumors that Michelle Obama also influenced her husband to not give Hillary the VP spot. Bill will always be the most convenient excuse regardless of the rumors accusing someone in the Obama camp of persuading him not to pick Hillary. I believe there were other reasons from personal animosity on the part of both Michelle and Barack as well as their other staff members to worries that two Clintons in the administration constantly upstaging Obama would be too much to handle. Hillary as SOS has a lower profile than she would as VP and Bill can do his humanitarian work as a private citizen without his accomplishments being directly linked to the White House. It is also easier to control and hide the gaffe-prone Biden from the spotlight and reduce his influence on Obama's decisions and dals with health insurance companies, big business, etc.

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by: BotoxicPelosi @ Fri Oct 30, 2009 at 22:53:07 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

My view? (4.00 / 2)

Anyone slighted by the Clintons during their years in the WH - - Daschle, Wilhelm, Sullivan, Reich, Kerry, the list goes on and on - - all with their petty pet peeves over pet single issues and projects - - backed Obama, overtly or covertly, not thinking he'd win, but just to give a big "FU" to Bill and Hillary.  Add sexism to the mix (too many old guys (Biden, Dodd, Richardson) saying "Bill's wife, and not me?", add liberal race guilt and residual media Clinton haters (Matthews, Dodd, etc.), and it was a perfect storm to promote the new guy.
Then, the radical 'bots bought what the astro turfers sold, and convinced themselves Hillary Clinton was "evil" - - that was the kos/MSNBC/Air America adjective, remember? - - so they couldn't abide by her as VP.
NOW . . . Bill's the only one giving Obama good advice, Hillary's doing a great (and loyal) job (without any embarassments, unlike lots of other appointed officials), Biden's a disaster (only saved on repeated personal gaffes and family issues by a friendly media), and I see these "spontaneous unauthorized disclosures" (unauthorized disclosures for attribution by guys still on staff?) as laying the groundwork for Obama / Clinton in 2012.  If you start hearing rumors about Biden's age and health . . .

http://farrightdemocrat.blogsp...

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by: farrightdemocrat @ Sat Oct 31, 2009 at 07:38:51 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

I guess I was right - - - (4.00 / 1)

This late yesterday from uber Obama "leak" recipient Sullivan -

She can say things that are true, and which Obama can then walk back a little. I'm sure this is deliberate. And I have to say that her performance as secretary-of-state seems to me to be a real highlight of the administration. Compared to what might have happened, she and Obama have forged a real partnership.

http://andrewsullivan.theatlan...

When Sullivan spins for and promotes Hillary . . .  

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by: farrightdemocrat @ Sat Oct 31, 2009 at 08:35:20 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

But but but.... (4.00 / 1)

Your quote leaves out the typical Sullivan crap and a very  different message - including a classic derangement syndrome headline:  "Hillary going rogue?"

"Hillary is beginning to compile a non-trivial list of off-message comments that cause trouble. On a trip to China she dismissed human rights as a factor in US-China relations--apparently not a scripted statement. She got ahead of the Obama White House on talk of a complete Israeli settlement freeze. And this summer she compared the North Koreans to "unruly teenagers" at a time when the administration was arranging a visit to Pyongyang by her husband to free American journalists held there. For a woman so famous for her message discipline, it's more than a little surprising."

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by: CoyoteCreek @ Sat Oct 31, 2009 at 09:13:01 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

But then he says it's all more - - - (4.00 / 2)

super awesome multi dimensional chess !!!  LOL
According to Sullivan, any Obama administration mistake is simply a fake move.

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by: farrightdemocrat @ Sat Oct 31, 2009 at 12:00:22 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

I agree with all you've said. But I HOPE.... (4.00 / 2)

(there's that word, again!) that HRC will not demean herself by playing second fiddle to this empty suit at anytime in the future.  I had a hard enough time with her accepting SOS.

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by: CoyoteCreek @ Sat Oct 31, 2009 at 09:09:56 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

There are some voices here saying Hillary will run for (0.00 / 0)

governor here in New York state in the next gubernatorial election.  I do not know if it will be the right thing to do for her.  I know she will not even have to campaign.  In many ways Hillary owns NYS.

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by: BxFemDem @ Sat Oct 31, 2009 at 23:01:18 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

You make a couple of excellent points we can't forget (4.00 / 3)

It was not until the collapse that Obama was ahead of McCain, and through Nov., Hillary polled better. All along, the spoiled elite guys in the party would have rather lost with Obama than won with Hillary.

And your Perfect Storm phrase is perfect. Everything had to break Obama's way, and it did.

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by: Pacific John @ Sat Oct 31, 2009 at 10:57:22 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

The luckiest man alive. (0.00 / 0)

Of course, his luck may run out Tuesday.
If we lose NJ, VA and the NY cong seat, there will be NO moderate support left for healthcare reform worthy of the name - - he'll get an insurance reform bill, and call it victory, but no one will buy into it.

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by: farrightdemocrat @ Sat Oct 31, 2009 at 12:06:25 PM CDT

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I want this bill to fail because it will.... (0.00 / 0)

kill single-payer for another generation.  So, sorry NJ, VA and NY......

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by: CoyoteCreek @ Sat Oct 31, 2009 at 14:16:30 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

That's exactly wrong (4.00 / 2)

If this bill passes, it kills single payer forever. Its primary - only - purpose is to institutionalize private market theft from consumers.

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by: Pacific John @ Sat Oct 31, 2009 at 14:27:57 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

You're right - I was trying to be optimistic! (4.00 / 1)

And then there's this AP headline and article about how little this Obamanation will do right now.....

http://enews.earthlink.net/art...

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by: CoyoteCreek @ Sat Oct 31, 2009 at 16:32:14 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Translation: (4.00 / 3)

None of us really wanted to look Bill Clinton, who saved the lives of hundreds of millions of poor Africans, in the eye after having called him a racist so we took the easy way out.

After the morally deplorable campaign they ran, I can't imagine any of those weasels have the backbone to take responsibility for the damage that they did. At least here we learn that they are not totally devoid of a conscience.  

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by: lorelynn @ Sat Oct 31, 2009 at 16:22:18 PM CDT

The envy/hatred of WJC is so peculiar (4.00 / 2)

I always wonder if it has to do with him being the "first black president" or ... well who knows.

My Republican friends speak more kindly of WJC "I have to admit, I really believe WJC does care about people" than this White House.

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by: catfish @ Sat Oct 31, 2009 at 17:09:04 PM CDT

I always thought it was his ability to use his penis, when the other (4.00 / 1)

couldn't even give theirs away.  Penis envy.

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by: Hopscotch @ Sat Oct 31, 2009 at 19:03:56 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Truth in your joke - - - (0.00 / 0)

those most offended by rumors he had sex with women turned out to be . . . closeted gays (Sen. "you nasty, nasty boy!" Craig) / closeted perverts (Sen. "mommy, I dirtied my diaper" Vitter) / closeted philanderers (Gingrich, Hyde, etc etc etc).  
People with honest normal sex lives (whether straight or gay) didn't give a damn.  

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by: farrightdemocrat @ Sun Nov 01, 2009 at 07:26:03 AM CST

[ Parent ]

He's blacker than Barack (4.00 / 3)

He grew up in segregated Arkansas, and was the only white guy to swim in the same pool with everyone else. Barack has less experience with mainland American culture than nearly everyone reading this.

One friend of mine put it this way: the Clintons felt they could never do enough for African Americans, and Obama feels he doesn't need to do anything except get elected. Hell, he doesn't feel obligated to help anyone who needs it, as near as I can tell.

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by: Pacific John @ Sat Oct 31, 2009 at 19:35:42 PM CDT

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You do know his biological dad, Blythe . . . (0.00 / 0)

was a "traveler", i.e., Roma / Gypsy.
And, there's Indian blood on his mom's (and most southerner's) side.

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by: farrightdemocrat @ Sun Nov 01, 2009 at 07:28:04 AM CST

[ Parent ]

Plouffe's book (0.00 / 0)

Last month, Anderson's book said that Michelle Obama opposed Hillary as VP and that's why she did not get the job. And this month, Plouffe's book alleges that Bill Clinton doomed Hillary as VP. Which is it? My guess is that, these clowns will peddle any gossip about the Clintons to sell books.
Since they appeared in the national scene in the 90s, the Clintons have generated a cottage industry in the book area. So, take this latest tale with a grain of salt.

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by: alinosof @ Sat Oct 31, 2009 at 21:25:20 PM CDT

The common thread (4.00 / 1)

is that Team BHO hated the Clintons, and you make a good point that CDS sells books.

I'm sure there was a cacophony withing Team BHO screaming against Hillary for VP. There was a nearly unexplainable desperation within the Obama campaign and a pathological disdain that Hillary would dare to run a strong campaign.

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by: Pacific John @ Sat Oct 31, 2009 at 23:05:46 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Clinton Derangement Syndrome sells. It's as simple as that. Who cares (0.00 / 0)

about their books anyway?  And who is buying and, worse, spending the time to read them?  They are tabloid garbage, nothing more, nothing less.

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by: BxFemDem @ Sat Oct 31, 2009 at 23:07:39 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

2008 proved Shirley Chisholm was correct. (4.00 / 2)

America is more sexist than racist.

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by: farrightdemocrat @ Sun Nov 01, 2009 at 07:30:14 AM CST

I had friends who did HRC events in SC (4.00 / 2)

come back with stories that were like ice water through the veins. Old Southerners would vote for a Black man, but not a woman. Similar stories came from the Mormon areas of rural NV. On one hand, it's very good that the country would move so dramatically away from racism, but on the other, the latent misogyny has been unmasked. I was naive to assume that sexism and racism were waning together.

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by: Pacific John @ Sun Nov 01, 2009 at 11:24:50 AM CST

[ Parent ]

Rural Nevada (4.00 / 2)

A-yep.

My county in rural NV (Lyon) was the only one that went for HRC (pats self and our terrific organizers on back), but the venom towards her by non-HRCers was horrific.  

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by: carissa @ Mon Nov 02, 2009 at 12:57:04 PM CST

[ Parent ]

Yep (4.00 / 1)

and great job in your county! And BTW, is it primarily the Mormon influence that made white rural NV voters hate Hillary? Rural counties in TX, NM, AZ and CA went strongly HRC.

What you describe is part of the asymmetry of the hotly contested states, with irrational rage focused on Hillary, and indignation from Obama supporters that HRC people simply wanted to subject Obama to a fair version of a Dem presidential primary. As I keep pointing out, our side was in fact the reality-based side, and our concerns on everything from Wall Street to education have not only been constant, but were eventually adopted most of the Obama supporters.

Hell, we didn't even really care that our girl had to rise above an unprecedented paid and unpaid media attack so much as we wanted Obama to have to explain what he was willing stand for. Everything had to break Obama's way for him to get the nomination, and we still know that Hillary would crushed him in anything like a fair fight.

Hillary, most BHO fans now begrudgingly admit, ended up on the central issues with a better record: on civil liberties, with a clear stand on an open pubic option, with a superior stand on education and with what is de facto the Obama stand on defense.

So much for the emotional screeching about judgment.

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by: Pacific John @ Mon Nov 02, 2009 at 14:39:15 PM CST

[ Parent ]

After some reflection (0.00 / 0)

and after watching the relationship between Obama and HRC these days...

I actually think that Obama might very well have been seriously considering HRC for VP and that his inner circle talked him out of it. After everything that happened, I think at the end of the game, he ended up genuinely respecting her, her knowledge, intelligence and work ethic. I think she's gotten more publicity as Secretary of State than Biden has gotten as VP, and arguably, what she's doing is more important. Aside from the tattered state of US foreign relations post-Bush, there was also a demoralized and weakened State Department to consider.

I do not like Obama and I think his handling of most domestic policy issues has been pretty bad, somewhat tone-deaf and in the service of his corporate masters. But -- I think the foreign policy has been pretty solid overall (because I don't think Afghanistan is a clear-cut issue in the slightest) -- and that he and Hillary make a good team. And quite frankly, I think the country is better off with her as SoS than VP.  

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by: Politica @ Tue Nov 03, 2009 at 01:49:06 AM CST

Oh, although (0.00 / 0)

I agree with Glenn Greenwald here -- the Israeli press has a far more nuanced view of US/Israeli relations than the vast majority of our public discourse does, and the relationship needs to change...and that US drone attacks are, well, terrorism.

It's a problem, to put it mildly.  

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by: Politica @ Tue Nov 03, 2009 at 03:00:17 AM CST

[ Parent ]

One strenght Obama has (0.00 / 0)

...is his ability to put aside his feelings, and put in place subordinates who will benefit him most.

Narrowly, this is good, but it's also a sign that he is not normally invested in human relationships.

My read continues to be that BHO people suffered from CDS, but that BHO himself only engaged in it for narrow utility.

An early sign that Obama would use people's strengths despite what we'd assume his beliefs to be came when he toyed with the idea of appointing Schwarzenegger to his cabinet. People who casually follow CA politics know that this was a kick in the gut to advocates for the disabled and poor, since Arnold's basic platform was to stop services to newborns with disabilities and gut healthcare for low income people, particularly children.  

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by: Pacific John @ Tue Nov 03, 2009 at 14:35:33 PM CST

[ Parent ]