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ALEGRE'S CORNER
We're not finished folks - not by a long shot!

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Could FISA Capitulation Have Happened Without Obama's Knowledge And Direction?

by: ghost2

Sun Jun 22, 2008 at 21:40:59 PM EDT


( - promoted by masslib)

No.

As Atrios says, this is another episode of simple answers to simple questions.  

I find it funny that the netroots is twisting itself into a pretzel again, in order to rationalize Obama's position on FISA capitulation.  John Cole equates FISA to a poker hand, and there was a hilarious dkos comment, courtesy of Anna Belle (No, I won't link to dkos, just to Anna's comment):

It is a progressive stance with a dash of pragmatism.  It is actually the direction I was hoping he would take it.

There is more ...  

ghost2 :: Could FISA Capitulation Have Happened Without Obama's Knowledge And Direction?
Big Tent Democrat had a post yesterday, titled Why We Fight, quoting Glenn Greenwald:

The excuse that Obama's support for this bill is politically shrewd is -- even if accurate -- neither a defense of what he did nor a reason to refrain from loudly criticizing him for it. Actually, it's the opposite. It's precisely because Obama is calculating that he can -- without real consequence -- trample upon the political values of those who believe in the Constitution and the rule of law that it's necessary to do what one can to change that calculus. Telling Obama that you'll cheer for him no matter what he does, that you'll vest in him Blind Faith that anything he does is done with the purest of motives, ensures that he will continue to ignore you and your political interests.

(Emphasis supplied by BTD)

Here was my reply to Big Tent Democrat and Glenn Greenwald:

This is not only Pelosi's position, but also Obama's position.  

You are naive if you think the compromise happened without the knowledge of Obama, and he is issuing a statement after the fact.  That cannot be.  

An expolosive, controversial issue like this could hamper the nominee.  Why would Pelosi bring it up now?

Note carefully.  It's the quiet time.  Reporters mad at Hillary Clinton for prolonging the primary have just now gotten their vacations. It's summer, just before 4th of July.  What better time to throw Campaign Finance, FISA under the bus?

Superdelegates LOVE the money networks Obama has and are drooling at the prospect of that money. He is even careful and not issuing fundraising emails for anyone, b/c that means some cherished donors will also end up on somebody else's big email list.  That's his ace, and he is not letting go of it.

Remember, the first thing that came for Obama was MONEY. You'd think that network of bundlers, lobbyists, and corporate bosses with connections didn't expect anything in return?  

Obama will throw a lot of people under the bus, but he is too smart of a politician to throw his money backers there.  That won't happen.

FISA and immunity were the first thing delivered by Obama.  You, Glenn and everyone else can ignore that at your peril.

Well, just so you don't think I am crazy, Here is a quote from the great Digby herself, which she wrote on Friday, and I saw after I had posted the above:

I do know this: they would not have made this "compromise" and then brought this to the floor without his ok, and probably without his direction. He is the leader of the Democratic Party now, in the middle of a hotly contested presidential campaign. If he didn't come to them and say to get this thing done before the fall, then they came to him and asked his permission. That's just a fact. They aren't going to do anything he doesn't want them to do.
So, it's not really a capitulation. It's a strategy.

 

Tags: , , , (All Tags)
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Cookie Jar!! (4.00 / 11)
No pretzels please!!

Oh Ghost, (4.00 / 3)
it's always a pleasure following you around.  You're a fine ghost indeed.  A true thinker of a ghost.

[ Parent ]
Thank you. (4.00 / 2)
(blushing!)

[ Parent ]
I hope Digby isn't pleased with this strategy. (4.00 / 7)
What's scary is the people who support Obama think he's a "progressive" and so much more liberal than that quasi-Republican, Bill Clinton.  Do you remember what Bill Clinton ran on?  FMLA, gays openly serving in the military, universal healthcare, and a major public works program.  Of course, ultimately he couldn't get most of that.  But what is it Obama's running on?  He's pulled his position on nearly every progressive stance he took.  I hope these people are not delusional enough to think he'll reform FISA after he wins.

Medicare for All is Civil Rights

He'll reform FISA after he wins (4.00 / 4)
Nope, because he won't win the GE.  

Alice left me in Wonderland.  

[ Parent ]
If he wins, he will not reform anything. (4.00 / 6)
First, you don't undo immunity(though I think reiverdaughter has it right, immunity would have been better used as a bargaining chip).  Two, President's don't tend to give up power.  Congress must assert itself.  

Medicare for All is Civil Rights

[ Parent ]
Agree - eom (0.00 / 0)


Alice left me in Wonderland.  

[ Parent ]
Digby (4.00 / 1)
is wrong. It is a capitulation to principle, and a salute to the old style politics.

No, it's not. That would actually be a more (4.00 / 4)
sympathetic reasoning.  it suggests they didn't really want it, that Obama didn't really want it, but were afraid to take a stand.  What happened is far worse.  They, and Obama, wanted this.

Medicare for All is Civil Rights

[ Parent ]
I'm not clear (4.00 / 1)
that this was a strategy.

If Obama wanted to use this for political gain, he would have denounced the bill and proclaimed that when he was president he would submit legislation to nullify the the effect.

Maybe I'm missing something ...as I'm apt to do ;-)


[ Parent ]
No, that would have made him look weak. (4.00 / 6)
3/4's of the Congress voted for this.  He was behind it, or at least supported it.  I tend to think the former.  I kind of suspected this would happen back when Rockafeller endorsed him.  

Progressive Democrats tend to believe when Congressional Democrats go along with something like this it's because they are too weak to fight against it.  It never occurs to them that they actually support these things.

He's not thinking of the liberals who care about this right now.  They've lost all other options.  He's all they got.  he's thinking of the GE voters, and he doesn't want to have to defend his position.

Medicare for All is Civil Rights


[ Parent ]
Worth repeating. (4.00 / 5)
Progressive Democrats tend to believe when Congressional Democrats go along with something like this it's because they are too weak to fight against it.  It never occurs to them that they actually support these things.

Excellent!!


[ Parent ]
This is exactly where you and I come down on the (4.00 / 2)
FISA legislation.  It's so obvious. I think people have been really bamboozled into assuming everytime the Dems don't fight against something, they are secretly against it.  

Medicare for All is Civil Rights

[ Parent ]
Corporates are people too! (4.00 / 2)
and Democrats need their donors, as much as the next person.  

[ Parent ]
Ding! (0.00 / 0)
I hadn't considered the strategy of appealing to Republicans.

So does McCain denounce and go for liberals? Just kidding.


[ Parent ]
Or Maybe He's Thinking (0.00 / 0)
about all the good dirt he can get when he's in the White House...all the power he'll have to eavesdrop on his enemies...who I'm sure include us.

[ Parent ]
Afraid to take a stance (4.00 / 1)
nails it for me.  No more explanation needed here for me.  I'm not a Pretzel, after all.

[ Parent ]
And, btw, I love pretzels. (4.00 / 1)
but only as an avid consumer of them. That reminds me, I'm hungry for pretzels.

[ Parent ]
Or, this is his stance. (4.00 / 4)
That's what I think it is.

Medicare for All is Civil Rights

[ Parent ]
Yeah (4.00 / 3)
he wants the power for when he's president. Remember, the rest of the bill is just dandy with him. And it's a pretty bad bill, by all accounts.

[ Parent ]
Not against pretzels, just pretzel logic! (n/t) (4.00 / 2)


[ Parent ]
Obama (4.00 / 8)
If anyone out there truly believes he will fight on any issue they have the wrong candidate.   Capitulation and rationale will be the order of the day.

How did we get stuck with this candidate when the one waiting in the wings had so much more?  

I miss Hillary and the enthusiasm she brought to the campaign.  It has only been replaced by revulsion for this presumptive nominee.

Disgraceful.  


Czech this out (4.00 / 1)
Hillary speaks! Click the video link and listen to what we are going to sadly miss.

[ Parent ]
I wish there were a youtube of that video. (4.00 / 3)


Medicare for All is Civil Rights

[ Parent ]
not her whole speech... (4.00 / 2)
...but the three minute news story is up.



Barack Obama's election proves that any male can grow up to be president, provided he's willing to use misogyny as a campaign strategy.


[ Parent ]
well, that didn't take long. (4.00 / 5)
a craven political cave-in is now being defended by the blogger boyz.  whatever happened to crashing the gate?  the people calling for taking the end of inside politics just three years ago aren't crashing the gate - they're up on the ramparts pouring boiling oil down to defend the castle.  

Barack Obama's election proves that any male can grow up to be president, provided he's willing to use misogyny as a campaign strategy.

Democrats also capitulate on War Spending. (4.00 / 1)
A fine piece from Turkana, posted on Friday.  Wish I had seen it earlier.  

While you were distracted by the Democrats' capitulation to Bush on domestic spying and telecom immunity, you probably didn't even notice that they were also busy capitulating to him on the war. From the San Francisco Chronicle:

The House approved the largest war-spending bill to date Thursday, bending to President Bush's call for $162 billion in war funding with no strings attached and giving his successor enough money to wage the wars until July 2009.
In exchange, Democrats won Bush's blessing for several of their domestic priorities, including a 13-week extension of jobless benefits for workers who have exhausted theirs, and a new GI bill benefit allowing veterans of the Iraq and Afghanistan wars to attend a state college tuition-free.

The deal, negotiated between the White House and allies of House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, D-San Francisco, takes the issue of the war off Congress' plate for the rest of this election year. Lawmakers also intended to give the next president some time to set a new Iraq policy before having to return to Congress for more money.

But anti-war activists called it a betrayal by Democrats, who had pledged to end the war. Rep. Barbara Lee,? D-Oakland, dubbed it "the biggest blank check ever." Rep. Lynn Woolsey,? D-Petaluma, said the vote was a "profound disappointment to the millions of Americans who put Democrats into power hoping we could force a change in Iraq."



Again, I abhor the word capitulate to describe (4.00 / 2)
the actions of the Democrats.  It pre-supposes they do not want to fund the war.  They do.  I don't entirely blame them.  there's no legitimate plan for exit.  As Hillary said many times leaving is going to take a lot of planning and a lot of time.  It's certainly not going to happen in 16 months, or against the will of a sitting President.  So much of this is theatrical.  I really feel bad for those voters who think we are on the cusp of an era of passificism.  We are not.

Medicare for All is Civil Rights

[ Parent ]
I agree with you. (0.00 / 0)
I guess I was channelling the netroots.  

You are right, and let me say that that's an issue that caused me to be disgusted with the so-called netroots (not Turkana, s/he is usually reasonable).  The netroots kept screaming for withdrawal, or no-funding (to force a immediate withdrawl), without even a token acknowledgement of the effect of immediate withdrawl on Iraqis.  

It's a very, very difficult problem, and one, as someone (don't remember where I read that) wrote, that even King Solomon himself may not be able to solve.

The only reasonable plan seemed to be from Biden.  

I felt really annoyed with Richardson and lost all respect for him when he tried to pull off that "I will withdraw our troops immediately" schtick.  It was obvious that it was a political posture, which I think on an issue of this much gravity, is unforgivable.


[ Parent ]
RE: ROCKEFELLER (4.00 / 1)
"I kind of suspected this would happen back when Rockafeller endorsed him."

BINGO! Now we West Virginians know what that was about.  When you think about it, John D. I'm-too-rich-to-steal Rockefeller doesn't come cheap! FISA may mean zilch to the public, but this will cost Obama in left-wingers' support (or does he think he doesn't need them anymore either?)    



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