Sarah Palin and forced pregnancy

You should be happy (4.00 / 9)

if you find her such an atrocious choice, then Obama will win.

We're happy that at least one candidate is acknowledging sexism exists. Maybe we're happy more women are in the arena, even if she's on the wrong side of the arena. Maybe we're happy somebody besides us noticed that Obama and the Democrats were treating women like crap.

The worst that could happen is if Roe v. Wade is overturned, it is up to the states. In California, abortion will still be legal and plan B (morning-after pill) will still be legal.

If Palin were a man, would you be this mad? Are you holding her to a double standard because she is a woman?

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by: catfish @ Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 18:37:38 PM CDT

Yes, if she were a man I would be this mad (4.00 / 6)

Her gender has nothing to do with my dismay.  It's her views on my rights and my daughters' rights and on every other woman's rights!

That she is a woman is irrelevant to me.  In this particular situation, gender has no redeeming value to me.

Certainly I would like a woman to hold our top office.  Hell, I supported Hillary all the way.  But I am not going to view everything that happens hereafter through the lens of what happened to Hillary.  It's too small a lens to make such serious decisions as whom to vote for.... speaking for myself of course.

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by: Radiowalla @ Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 18:56:50 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

I'd be madder (4.00 / 4)

Palin is like many down-home pug women who pretend to care about kids but voted for George Bush.  Palin has acted with her own body they way she chose. She elected to carrry a fetus to term that has a genetic disorder.  I applaud her ability to make that choice.  Her child is likely a source of joy for her, and likely a source of self-satisfaction, she's soooo Christian.  Yet she wants to deny choice to everyone else.  She is no feminist. When the pugs start to care about kids lives after they're born, they can maybe give their opinions about what other women ought and ought not do, it's offensive, but not as repugnant.  

But at least she speaking from her own experience, when men say these things it is far more reprehensible, and for them it's dishonest too.  What anti-abortion men want to do is control some woman's body.  Palin also wants to control women's bodies, but she's marginally entitled to her opinion, she can herself be forced into an unwanted pregnancy.  

Hillary - alternative energy

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by: anna shane @ Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 10:56:31 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

Hear, hear! (4.00 / 1)

 ... "When the pugs start to care about kids lives after they're born, they can maybe give their opinions about what other women ought and ought not do"

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by: cameoanne @ Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 21:15:52 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

If Palin Were a Man You Wouldn't Cheer (4.00 / 4)

I've gotta chime in here folks and will write more later tofay on thus...

The diarist is RIGHT on this point.  Palin is NOT OUR FRIEND.  Her gender doesn't change her rabid anti choice stand and there's mo way in hell mac is going to get my vote just because he put Palin on the ticket.

Invest in Women - Change the World
http://twitter.com/alegrescorner

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by: Alegre @ Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 10:21:40 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

re Roe v. Wade overturned? (4.00 / 2)

 not to worry.  With the Dems in charge of Senate and Congress, McCain won't be able to appoint anti-Roev.Wade judges.

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by: Sharyn @ Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 18:44:52 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

famous last words? (4.00 / 2)

every two years they'll get another chance?  Our cowardly dem's might capitulate?  Party Reform Now.  

Hillary - alternative energy

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by: anna shane @ Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 10:57:44 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

Reform now (4.00 / 2)

You are correct, which is why we need to take the opportunity right now while we have the spotlight to tell BOTH parties that we demand our right to privacy and reproductive freedom. Women haven't had an opportunity like this in my lifetime (I'm 38).  

Alice left me in Wonderland.  

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by: grlpatriot @ Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 11:33:24 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

it's well after midnight here (4.00 / 8)

and I may not make much sense:) But I do get what you are saying and feeling. I agree with your premise and what you say. I can only speak for myself here, but after what I have seen for the last 8 months in this election process, I have but one thought, teach the DNC a lesson by seeing Obama loose. And again, this is just me saying this, but if it means I have to suffer 4 years of McCain/Palin, that I will do that. I have come to this decision, not to reward McCain for his pandering pick of Palin (didn't mean to rhyme there LOL) But in total and 100% protest to the DNC and obama. I@m seeing this as a long term thing, if Obama wins I do not believe Hillary will stand a chance to run again. Call me selfish, but I want her in the whitehouse and, for me, if that means going for mccain so she can run in 2012, then so be it. Besides,the Dems have a majority and will lidely get more, so it won't be all that easy for mccain/palin to screw with abortion rights and they will only get 4 years in office.

anyhow, those are my reasons, however intelligent they are:)


~~~~~~~~~~I Haven't had a President since 2001~~~~~~~~~~~~~

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by: PUMA IRISH BRIGADE @ Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 18:45:08 PM CDT

I just can't reward the Democrats with my vote (4.00 / 8)

Besides, I think Obama is abysmal in crisis situations. If a hurricane, flood, or terrorist attack comes, I do not want to watch him hemming, hawing, and blaming his staff.

Back when abortion was illegal fewer people had access to the pill. Now people can take the pill as a morning-after pill in emergencies.  

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by: catfish @ Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 18:55:32 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

They want to stop women from getting the morning after pill! (4.00 / 6)

They consider it abortion.

You don't want to vote for Obama, fine, but let's not kid ourselves about what we are getting if McCain and Palin are elected.  I remember those days when abortion was illegal.  I lived through them and, believe me,  I won't voluntarily go back or ask any other woman to go back.

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by: Radiowalla @ Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 19:00:16 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

they want to outlaw (4.00 / 2)

many forms of birth control they also consider abortion.  

Hillary - alternative energy

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by: anna shane @ Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 10:58:33 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

My Silence is My Vote (4.00 / 2)

Invest in Women - Change the World
http://twitter.com/alegrescorner

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by: Alegre @ Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 10:23:48 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

Don't be frightened (3.89 / 9)

I will not be held hostage by my ovaries. Women need to stop being so frightened. We need use this opportunity to cement women's privacy rights and our reproductive freedom. McCain and Palin will uphold the law and Roe V. Wade is law. Trust the Democrats in Congress to keep Roe safe.

This about Palin on Wikipedia:

Palin is pro-life and a prominent member of Feminists for Life.[35][36][37] A 2006 article in the Anchorage Daily News refers to her as "pro-contraception," but does not go into detail on the subject.[38] While running for Governor of Alaska, Palin advocated the teaching of both creationism and evolution in public schools;[39] but the next day, she said, "Creationism doesn't have to be part of the curriculum" and that she would not use "religion as a litmus test, or anybody's personal opinion on evolution or creationism" as criteria for selection to the school board.[39]

She opposes same-sex marriage, but has said she has gay friends.[13] Palin complied with an Alaskan state Supreme Court order and signed an implementation of same-sex benefits into law under protest, stating that legal options to avoid doing so had run out.[40][41] She supported a non-binding referendum for a constitutional amendment to deny benefits to homosexual couples.[42] Alaska was one of the first U.S. states to pass a constitutional ban on gay marriage, in 1998, along with Hawaii.[43] Palin has stated that she supported the 1998 constitutional amendment.[13]

Palin's first veto was used to kill a bill that would have barred the state from granting benefits to the partners of gay state employees, after she determined from Alaska's attorney general that it was unconstitutional. In effect, her veto granted State of Alaska benefits to same-sex couples, which she opposed doing, but which was required by law.[41]

Alice left me in Wonderland.  

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by: grlpatriot @ Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 18:57:18 PM CDT

Did you live through the days (4.00 / 5)

when abortion was illegal?  

It wasn't such a picnic.  

You don't want to be "held hostage" by your ovaries, but do you want someone else to hold them hostage?

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by: Radiowalla @ Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 19:02:13 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Isn't that what the DNC is doing? (4.00 / 8)

Vote for the sexist pig or lose control of your body?

Oh, have I mentioned I can't stand Obama?

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by: PumpkinLove @ Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 20:30:37 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

If you're pro-choice you have no choice! (4.00 / 8)

I am so sick of this. I am not a one-issue voter. Sorry. I care about family planning rights, access to morning-after pill definitely.

But if one candidate thinks it's OK to bully old ladies at caucuses to win and the other thinks women are worthy of respect and cheating at elections is not OK, well, that weights a little more heavily than abortion.

Harry Reid is pro-life in his personal life as is Dennis Kucinich! What burns me about Obama's abortion rights stance is the paternalism "it's between a woman and her pastor."  

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by: catfish @ Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 21:09:24 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Picnic (4.00 / 7)

I never said anything about a picnic. I understand that this is a very important issue to you. I'm not belittling it. Women's privacy rights and choice is important to me as well. I am also choosing not to be frightened. Rooting out the corrupt pols that caused this mess and tried to bring Obama to power by all means necessary and Democratic party reform  is a long term goal. We have to be willing to make some uncomfortable maneuvers to achieve it. Obama losing means 4 years of McCain, but it also means Hillary can run in 2012.  

Alice left me in Wonderland.  

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by: grlpatriot @ Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 20:59:44 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Well, you can vote for whomever you want (3.00 / 1)

There are many valid reasons to vote for McCain.

But imagine you have the chance to meet Hillary in person. If you told her what you wrote above, how do you think she would react?

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by: code blue @ Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 23:57:30 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

So now we need to please Hillary in all we think and say? (3.75 / 4)

Are you seriously suggesting that people should be ashamed of refusing to support 0bama because of what you assume Hillary would think of their choice? Perhaps we should all be thinking "WWHD?" constantly just so our thoughts stay pure and our decisions are the "right" ones.

This is very similar to the line of argument laid down by 0bots after Hillary suspended her campaign in June. "If you don't support 0bama like Hillary told you to, you're going against her wishes and making her look bad," they'd squeak. "Is that really what you want to do?" Well, Hillary is a wonderful person and an inspirational politician, but her opinions aren't going to dictate my actions. I respect her more than any other person on the political scene today, but I am my own person. I would expect her to respect that, just as I have respected her actions even when I did not agree with them. (When she released her delegates it really angered me, but I understand why she did it and accept her choice.) If she could not accept that we own and control our votes, I would be both surprised and disappointed.  

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by: Xeno @ Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 00:59:34 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

Of course you own your vote (3.50 / 2)

I'm just saying I can't follow the logic that voting for
McCain supports Hillary by giving her the Presidency in 2012.

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by: code blue @ Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 09:55:48 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

I would openly discuss my support for McCain/Palin (4.00 / 2)

and the reasons for it with Hillary CLinton. And you know what? I think my solid arguments might be enough to convince her that her party is lost and will not be saved as long as it keeps getting  propped up by good Democrats like her. Criticism is an an extraordinary device for change--people  shouldn't sacrifice it.  

I'm a Stantonian Democrat.

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by: Anna Belle @ Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 10:07:16 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

you don't understand her (0.00 / 0)

she would not like the presidency over one dead body, let along many.  

Hillary - alternative energy

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by: anna shane @ Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 11:00:20 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

Can WE Ease Up on the Pro GOP Stuff? (4.00 / 5)

Look I know this is a heated discussion here and I've tried to hold my tongue.

You all know where I stand right?  And you understand that this is a pro-Hillary site right?

Folks are gonna vote for McCain and that's their call.  But I would REALLY appreciate it if we could ease up on the pro-McCain stuff on this site and get back to talking about the issues we agree on rather then something that clearly divides us.

THANKS!

Invest in Women - Change the World
http://twitter.com/alegrescorner

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by: Alegre @ Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 10:30:52 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

On balance (4.00 / 3)

I agree with you and support this blog as a pro-Hillary site. My intent here isn't to be pro-GOP, but to add balance to what Radiowalla posted about forced pregnancy (boogieman). Based on the wiki info, it seems that Palin follows the law despite her personal beliefs.

Alice left me in Wonderland.  

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by: grlpatriot @ Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 10:07:27 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

Hear Hear! (4.00 / 2)

Still Hearting Hillary, In Slo-Mo toward McCain

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by: sharmajee @ Mon Sep 01, 2008 at 10:58:03 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

palin is so pro-pregnancy (3.67 / 3)

that if her daughter was impregnated by the devil incarnate and destined to mother the anti-christ, she'd require her daughter to carry the embryo to term and find a good devil worshiping sect to adopt it.    

Hillary - alternative energy

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by: anna shane @ Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 20:15:04 PM CDT

You rather vote for the sexist pig Obama (4.00 / 5)

who with the DNC uses abortion like the pied piper.

I'm voting for McCain.

Oh, have I mentioned I can't stand Obama?

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by: PumpkinLove @ Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 20:29:41 PM CDT

Vote for McCain and vote for Palin along with him (4.00 / 2)

That's your right.

Just be aware of what you are voting for.

And good luck with it.

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by: Radiowalla @ Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 23:01:35 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Didn't McCain make jokes about beating his wife? (3.00 / 1)

And didn't he vote against equal pay?

I'm a woman. I know sexism when I see it.

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by: code blue @ Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 23:59:09 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

His actions speak louder than his words (3.75 / 4)

He employs more women, more women in powerful positions, and pays them better than Obama. He's in the top ten for cultural diversity in the Senate.  

I'm a Stantonian Democrat.

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by: Anna Belle @ Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 10:08:53 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

Peddling fear is just pathetic (3.80 / 5)

In case you hadn't noticed, 0bama himself could give a rat's @ss about abortion rights and women's rights in general. You're talking about a man who had on his short list several pro-life, anti-choice MEN like Tim Kaine and Bob Casey. Had it not been for the crisis in Georgia, we'd be looking at an 0bama/Kaine ticket, and we would have heard not a peep of protest from the abortion fearmongers.

0bama constantly panders to evangelicals and flirts right up to the edge of agreeing to their views on when life begins and the need to curtail access to abortion. 0bama would have voted for Roberts (and probably Alito) but for the advice of his aides who told him it would hurt his presidential aspirations. He has thrown choice under the bus whenever it was politically expedient to do so. What on earth makes you or anyone else believe that an 0bama administration would be substantially better than what we've had over the last eight years?

I, for one, will not be bullied and coerced into supporting that man for any reason. As his supporters so charmingly put it during the primaries, I am one of those fortysomething women in the "dry pu$$y" demographic, anyway. Since I am unlikely to ever need an abortion, I have the luxury of voting or not voting without regard to what appears to be a gnawing fear for you. I know, I know -- I'm being "selfish" because I'm not putting aside my own needs and feelings in order to support other people, as women are always expected to do. Well, tough $hit. I own my vote and will do with it what I wish. If you can't handle that, it's your problem, not mine.  

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by: Xeno @ Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 00:42:28 AM CDT

How to answer your uncivil reply? (3.50 / 2)

One:  you are chastising Obama for VP choices he DIDN'T make and for Supreme Court nominees he DIDN'T confirm.  

Two:  you are misrepresenting his record on abortion rights when his record by any objective measure (actual votes) has been 100% in 2005, 2006, 2007.

If you consider a statement of facts to be bullying, that is your right.  You have made a decision to vote against Obama  based on other considerations, which is also your right.  However, you lose credibility when you base your argument on fantasies about what he might have done instead of what he actually did.

Vote for whomever you please, or don't vote at all.  I could care less what you do.   I only care that Palin's views on abortion be made fully known before the election and I intend to keep speaking out about them.  

If you can't handle that, it's your problem, not mine.  

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by: Radiowalla @ Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 10:13:45 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

With all due respect, Radiowalla (3.80 / 5)

This is an example of what I mean on my blog when I talk about liberal rhetoric getting shriller and shriller.

You're perfectly entitled to your opinion, but I'm also entitled to mine, and this reeks of the Specter of Roe V. Wade, which is used just like the gay-marriage specter is used on the right. I think it prevents the left from actually using their leverage to protect reasonable, legal abortion options for women and change the game on sex education and birth control access. I do hope you'll consider this opinion, which I articulate in the third part of my series on The Specter of roe v Wade here at Alegre's. A simple search should bring it up. I'm too lazy to go looking myself. Sorry.  

I'm a Stantonian Democrat.

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by: Anna Belle @ Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 09:59:54 AM CDT

Liberal "rhetoric?" (0.00 / 0)

Please.

I'm stating her position on abortion rights.  She wants abortion to be illegal even in cases of rape or incest.   Are you down with that?

With all due respect, what is shrill about stating the record of this new nominee?
Isn't it something a voter might care to know about?  

I am aghast at her selection and very disappointed and will not refrain from saying so.

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by: Radiowalla @ Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 10:17:43 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

Yes, she is pro-life (3.67 / 3)

And the political climate is such that she has to make that clear. I respect her personal ethic. I'm not on board with every abortion either. But can you name one thing she has done to criminalize abortion? I'll wait.  

I'm a Stantonian Democrat.

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by: Anna Belle @ Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 10:28:11 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

She advocates for the criminalization of abortion (0.00 / 0)

That is her position.   If she becomes VP she will be in a position to cast tie-breaking votes in the Senate and if she, God forbid, succeeds to the presidency she will have all the power she needs to stack the Supreme Court, veto pro-choice bills, enact presidential orders  stopping funding of family planning programs....and on and on.

The best predictor of future behavior is past behavior and I'm not willing to take a chance on  Sarah Palin.

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by: Radiowalla @ Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 10:34:21 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

I tend to take campaign rhetoric (4.00 / 2)

with a grain of salt. You don't. That's our disagreement. But I have to say, I think the truth is on my side. Few politicians govern in the manner in which they campaign. Hell, that's the biggest selling point for Obama to progs.  

I'm a Stantonian Democrat.

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by: Anna Belle @ Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 12:33:19 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

True, she's anti-choice (4.00 / 5)

However, she won't be president, she'll be vice president.  In addition, the true permeation of the glass ceiling is only good for women, all women, in the long term.

I haven't decided how I'll vote, but this notion that it's hideous and awful to vote for Palin because she's anti-choice negates that this may be the one chance in 20 years to have a woman in the White House/VP mansion.

And the Democrats have smiled and waved as reproductive rights have eroded. If you haven't figured out that they only pretend to care about the issue, then, my dear, it's time you WAKE UP!

And who is to blame because the first woman in this position may be Republican and anti-choice.

...the fault lies with none other than Mr. Barack Obama and his blue-haired good old boys in the DNC.  It's certainly not the fault of women who would like to see a woman in the position before they die.

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by: Teresa @ Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 10:06:44 AM CDT

And might I add (4.00 / 5)

that if McCain fails in his election bid, people will once again, say, see? this country doesn't want a woman in the White House (or VP mansion).  And it will be another 20-30 years before anyone attempts it.  By then, I'll be dead.

Obama's election will erode reproductive rights.  He feels that you should consult your "family" and your "minister" before choosing abortion.  That's just kinder, gentler anti-choice.

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by: Teresa @ Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 10:13:21 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

Personally, I think the betrayal to women (3.33 / 3)

has come from none other than Ms. Hillary Clinton.  To her, being a member of the group exceeds the idea of standing on principle.

She doesn't mind rolling over on her principles.  Who cares about issues as long as the borg assimilates and gains power.  By that, she sets an example for me.  Now, I can vote frivolously for a woman, regardless of her stances.

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by: Teresa @ Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 10:16:25 AM CDT

I kinda agree (0.00 / 0)

At least with the part that any broken glass ceiling for women is good for all women, because it opens up access. And let's face, the global pattern has been conservative females first. We got lucky with Hillary because of Bill's legacy, and because she was such a force in and of herself.  

I'm a Stantonian Democrat.

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by: Anna Belle @ Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 10:32:55 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

I never (3.75 / 4)

had a doubt that she would probably be bad on these issues, however, the problem is that I don't see Obama as any great shakes either. Who's to say that he wouldn't appoint a pro life judge with all the evangelical pandering he's done. Cass Sunstein seems to be his pick for the supreme court who doesn't support Roe v. Wade or the fourth amendment. Truly the best argument anyone can come up with imo, is to leave the ballot blank.

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by: Ga6th @ Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 19:52:45 PM CDT